Talking 'Inside Late Night' with Mark Malkoff (Part 2)
Leno at 10pm, Letterman's greatness, and Mulaney's entry into the genre
This is Part 2 of my discussion about all things Late Night with Mark Malkoff, host of Inside Late Night and The Carson Podcast.
You can read part one here, and you can listen to the podcast version here.
AI was used to generate the transcript, so let’s call it “pretty accurate.”
John: Let's walk up through the Tonight Show. You seem like a very positive guy, so I'm not looking for any sort of pile on, but I'd love to know what your thoughts are on Leno, Conan, Leno 2, Fallon. We can go quick.
Mark: Yeah, I think it's one of those things that NBC could have handled it better.
The whole in four years Conan's gonna get the Tonight Show thing, I understand Jay being upset because he was still number one and just rarely do they just force somebody out when they're number one with all the demographics and the ratings at the same time. NBC was afraid Conan was going to go somewhere else.
Fox offered him a lot of money to go there and I just think that they were just afraid of that situation and then once Conan was given the Tonight Show, Jay was given this 10 o'clock show which just was okay. It wasn't anything great. Definitely. After watching it, I didn't think it was probably going to go anywhere.
And if, NBC would have gotten rid of Jay, they would have had to pay him over a hundred million dollars.
I mean, it was ridiculous money. So NBC would have looked so foolish having to pay him over a hundred million. If they got rid of Conan, they would have paid him 40 million.
So 40 million versus over a hundred million. And as it turned out, Conan had 10 months to figure out the Tonight show, which he had problems. But everybody did. I talked to Jay on the phone. He was very nice to me. But diplomatically, I was just like, Jay, you didn't figure out your show in 10 months.
It took you at least a year and a half until you did the show in (Studio) H in New York, where your show found your voice. I said to him, There's no way In 10 months. Conan didn't. Anybody from Jay to certainly to Colbert, who's number one now, didn't figure it out the first year. He was, people forget, they look at the success, but Colbert was number three and just, everybody was piling on him with criticism and stuff.
So this show is, They take a while, John Stewart's first year on the daily show. Certainly people were like, we miss Craig Kilborn. We miss Craig Kilborn and just the new somebody that's doing something new, especially they're making change. It just takes a while. I don't think Conan was given enough time.
Certainly, there (are) hosts, including Jay, if they were only given 10 months, I don't think that they probably would have lasted. Conan could have gone to 12. I guess they put a move that Tonight Show at 12:05 or something. And I get Conan didn't want to move backwards. NBC paid him, I believe it was 40 million.
And then he went to TBS, which it was tough. Just, people really, I don't think were really watching that as much as they would have network shown it. They did a great work. Some of the stuff did, did very well online. And then Conan now, ironically being doing a podcast once a week, I feel Is more popular than any of the people currently behind the desk.
And they all do a great job and what Conan does is very different, but I feel like full circle that was the best thing that ever happened to him and that he can do his HBO show right now, which is really funny. And yeah, I feel like this was his strength and doing those shows five days a week for years is not healthy for the person.
Some people it's just really affected them in negative ways. And I just think Conan's probably in the best possible place and everything worked out the best it could have.
John: I actually think the Leno 10pm idea was the right idea, but too soon. My premise: if I told you right now you could have 64 year old Jay Leno at 10 PM, four nights a week on NBC in today's network environment at that kind of budget for producing a show. I think NBC would kill to have that show. Maybe not 74 year old Jay, but right show wrong time.
Mark: It could have been, I watched the first show and there were certain things that I saw that I was like, I just couldn't believe that was the choice they were making.
And I just, in my head, I'm like, If they keep making certain decisions like this, I don't see the show going. It was so bizarre to see Jay, the very first time that I know of in his career challenged one of his guests, I'm sure he was pressured into it just to get publicity for the show, but asking Kanye West, who had just had gotten thrown out of the MTV awards or whatever it was.
I forget what it was for going in front. Taylor Swift won an award and Kanye grabbing a mic. And I think he said, Jay says, what would your mom think? Cause Jay, I think his mom, Kanye's mom had passed away. It was this different Jay. And obviously I think that they were trying to do different things.
Fred Silverman… I think he may have even had the idea at first. that they should do this. I don't know if Silverman inspired it or what, but like Silverman, I asked him about it. Cause I said, this was your idea for Jay to do this. And he's just I just, it just wasn't well executed.
Basically is what he said. I don't know, Jay to me. is still one of the best stand ups. If you look at the NBC show, the Letterman thing and stuff is incredible. it just wasn't a fit. and then NBC's what do we do with Jay? And then if he leaves, we have to pay him 100 million.
It would be a nightmare scenario in terms of the press. People would still be talking about that if they had to pay him over a hundred million. So it makes sense.
John: We’re talking about it anyway though.
Mark: I still think if Jay was on at 1130, in terms of the ratings, I think he would be really doing well.
In terms of the online stuff, they would have had to figure that stuff out. That was not his thing. But no, I think anybody. competing against Jay Leno would not be fun for anyone because that guy's work ethic is just nobody puts the amount of work into anything other than him. His friends will all tell you, his famous friends will all say the same thing. Everyone dismissed him when he was getting his butt kicked by Letterman for the first like year or two. And..his whole thing, all he wanted was to be number one, and he succeeded wildly in being number one.
I think a lot of people have said the show is largely forgettable, and I don't know how many moments people can go back specific moments, be like, these were my moments that I remember from the show, other than the Hugh Grant thing, which, wasn't even a joke or anything witty. It was just like, what the hell were you thinking?
And people remember that, but in terms of people remember certain bits like Jay Walking, but specific. Things that happened on that show. I think that there was a lack in whereas like Letterman people can go back and just, there's a very memorable incidences that happened. And yeah, it just, the Leno show is different in, in, in terms of, I think what they were going for, but they succeeded wildly and being number one.
John: Yeah, I agree. it's one of those weird things. It was number one forever, very successful, lasted a long time, and just has a vanilla ice cream legacy to it. It's great, but I think you nailed it. we're not sitting here going, oh, remember the time. Whereas I bet we could go down a very deep 80s Letterman rabbit hole and maybe some other day I'll invite you on to do that.
Mark Oh, yeah, please. It's true and I even think the CBS thing people can come up with moments and it just was different. I, I think it's, if I had to guess, I think it's probably hard for Jay now, because Ed Letterman is like the guy that everyone just at least comedically, they worship.
If Dave goes on any of those shows, like Colbert, it's like royalty. It's such a huge deal. Like when Dave went on John Mulaney's Netflix talk show, and it's, for him to do anything his show on Netflix, he gets people that just do not normally do these things that are very elusive to be guests, but they seem to all say yes to Dave.
So I think that's probably hard for Jay. just to be in a different position where he doesn't really get that accolade or the, I don't know, the the prestige that Dave has given. I'm sure that, I'm guessing that has to be hard for him.
John: So what did you think of Mulaney?
Mark: I thought it was great in terms of something that had not been really tested. Normally those things take forever to get on its feet and to have a cohesive feel. And I thought that were definitely, there were raw moments and stuff, but I think overall, in terms of doing six shows that have never, you know, These are his first six shows, I thought, or whatever it was.
I thought he did great. I thought the format was really fun. I think it was one of those things that they just kept doing the show, which I get, that those things are just pressure cookers and they take over your lives. I think if he just kept doing it and stuff, it just, obviously I think, it would just get stronger and stronger, but I thought for what they did and what they set out to that they did phenomenal.
And yeah, I hope they come back and they do it, but Mulaney is smart enough to know that having one of those gigs is just man. How many people, funny people like Chris Rock, Tina Fey, Amy Schumer just said no to those gigs? They're, it, to do that on a rate where you're going on every night.
Johnny Carson would have tried, and people over there say it, and it's true, would have told Joan Rivers if she would have gone to him that going to Fox was a mistake. He would have supported her in terms of how much money she, if you want to do this, but out of him just being loving Joan, (who_ was great on the Tonight Show ….as Carson said, every five weeks she could do one week, but doing it every single night, It just wasn't going to work. And Johnny would have told her that, but given her blessing. And and then Joan does it, the show and guests don't want to be doing it. She was counting on Barry Diller to maybe try to get some of the bigger guests and stuff, but like, when you insult your guests like that.
Public figures, people aren't going to go want to go on the show. And it's exactly what happened. She was very good, Joan, to her own guests, making them look good. But just in terms of her, what she was known for and stuff, it just didn't work. And Joan is such a pioneer and very funny with a lot of her stuff.
But it just to do that every single day. Is yeah, most people, Arsenio ended his show. What after four years? They get burned up. I think Jack Parr at four years. Steve Allen might've done five, but there's a reason that these people got out - Craig Ferguson - they just, it just got to be just too much.
It's that's why it's a miracle that Carson was able to do it for so long. Yeah, he had a lot of guest hosts and things, but still, I don't think people know this, or maybe you do, probably. In the beginning, Carson was doing an hour and 45 minutes. Every single night in New York. That is just baffling.
Mark: His first bunches of years for today's host doing an hour, they would have to host their show every single day of the year, plus 40 other shows. to make up of during that to add to that, it was baffling what Carson was able to do all that in the 90 minutes. I have friends at all the shows and for them to do an hour is it's hard enough, Do 90 minutes, which Carson was doing up until 80, 81, something like that is just.
John: Also, too, the back end of those Carson shows were pretty deep guests. It's one thing to go, Hey, my first guest tonight is Jerry Seinfeld. He's got a new movie. Please welcome Jerry. And then shut up and let your guests be funny.
As I teach radio, you know this. the famous example is shut up and let your guests be funny and then the next day everybody goes Did you see Johnny? He was hilarious and what they really meant was Burt Reynolds told a great story. But those 90 minute shows those longer shows, the back end guests, he had to carry that.
You can't assume that a less famous Carl Sagan is going to come out and be super compelling.
Mark: Johnny was very good at reading the books. It's like Jon Stewart is about if somebody was coming on, but he would have a lot of authors that would give them he would put on certain people.
He agreed with politically that Johnny publicly couldn't say he agreed with like Paul Ehrlich, Dr. Paul Ehrlich with population control. And he would go to dinner with Paul Ehrlich after the show. He'd go with Jim Fowler zoologist. He'd go to dinner with certain people. He was fast, never famous movie stars, but there was like maybe three people.
And Paul Ehrlich was one of them. And Carl Sagan, that he was just, Carson was just, I think those were some of his favorite guests and he would go and just ask them more questions. Very curious man, such as Letterman. But yeah, having to put, having those people on at 12:30 and then, once the show went to a 90, 60 minutes, it was like, bye bye Buck Henry. Bye bye, Phyllis Newman wasn't really doing that. It was these amazing talkers that were just phenomenal. A lot of them went away. Gore Vidal was one person Johnny kept.
…But that last half hour, Carson always said, especially in New York, he, after an hour and 40, 45, that he would just just barely hold on to the conversation sometimes.
John: I found myself when they first put the Johnny Carson show into syndication the non branded Tonight Show reruns on MeTV, maybe it was the 11 o'clock, when it was on at 11. I found myself really attracted to the 70s shows more than the 80s shows. Part of it, the lighting the style of guests, what you just alluded to, it was more.. A-celebrity, B-celebrity, and let's get out of here. And those 70s shows just, feel more free flowing, even the combination of people on the couch, there's just, like everything else, it's a different time, but I love those seventies (episodes)
Mark: In terms of it being loose and spontaneous or stuff that was supposed to be spontaneous that viewers think are spontaneous. I feel like there could be danger With certain guests and with certain things that would happen on the show in the 80s up till 92 Yeah, I think the 70s in terms of Carson as having the voice as a host the best clips I would say we're the 70s.
I love Johnny until the end, but if I had to pick my favorite moments, 90 percent I would pick 70s. And the 60s definitely is like this time capsule and they did some really funny stuff in the 60s as well. But I definitely think the peak of the show was 70s.
And I've heard people at the top that worked for him, say the same thing.
John: The other thing Johnny did that was smart was he went away and stayed away. There's that one Letterman appearance, but we don't have memories of past his prime Johnny. I was talking to a friend the other day. I heard a legendary jock from a New York City radio station still on the air somewhere, and I was like, it might be time to hang it up. I get it. And you don't remember my last memory of Johnny is showing up on Letterman.
Mark: It was tough for him to watch certain people that he really admired, like Jack Benny. He felt stayed way too long. Bob Hope was the biggest example, that was his fear.
You want to leave while you're on top and you don't want to. There were people like Don Rickles who I loved and people like Regis Philbin up until they passed, they needed that audience, they needed to be in front of an audience, they loved when people would come up to them in public, I know that a lot of people, maybe that aren't in entertainment or haven't been around it, think you don't want to bother these people, but some of them, and I've been out to dinner and lunches with them, they need it, they like when people come over, some people not as much, but There's certain people that needed that and, Johnny was not one of them.
People would come up and pay him compliments and stuff. this meant so much. This got me through a tough time and they would send him letters and stuff. He always loved that. But, he almost came back once to do an NBC special, but I, he had stopped smoking. He had tried earlier many times, but his physical appearance started to change and he started gaining weight.
And I think that probably contributed some of it that he just didn't want to look different than he did. And yeah, it's just like a lot of those factors. I just wanted the work to speak for itself. And to not, he just saw it on the Tonight Show all the time. He felt Groucho near the end too. It's like, why? Are you going on tv like this?
John: I'm smiling i'm thinking of Gilbert Godfrey's Groucho, which he only did Old Groucho.
Mark: Yeah, Gilbert. Oh, man. I was just talking about him yesterday. He was great He was I know him a little bit and I was a guest on his podcast for some bonus episodes at least One or I don't know and I got to spend time with him He I had him on the carson podcast and he Insisted that for me to interview him, I had to buy him a sandwich, which I did.
He was like, Kaiser roll, go to this deli by my house in Chelsea. Kaiser roll with this and this. And I had to get him a drink and all these things. It was like 6. 50 to interview Gil. And I went to his home and we Yeah, he did it, but he was quirky like that. He was fun, known for that type of thing, getting free things and stuff.
But what a talent I was really felt fortunate to, to know him just a little bit.
John: I enjoyed the dichotomy between on air Gilbert and Gilbert in the hallway. (Softly) Hi, nice to meet you. Yeah, and then light goes on and Gilbert Gottfried shows up.
Mark: It’s really true. I first met him, they had this comedy writer party that I got invited to.
I think maybe Frank Santopadre invited me. And I don't know, it was probably 80 people and stuff. And Gil was just on by himself on on a chair. Some comedians are a little bit shy a little shy here and there. I just wanted to go up to him just to let him know I'm doing this Johnny Carson podcast and we have met before.
And I just expected I don't know, like a minute or two. And then I was like, I want to leave him alone. But I don't know. We talked for it seemed like at least 40 minutes. Maybe it was an hour. I'm not sure. But he just, We had this bond right away when I mentioned Carson and it was just throughout the whole thing.
I'm like, I just don't want to be bothering him, but it wasn't a bother. And I think if people knew comedy well and they could connect with him And I think to this day, it's probably true of a lot of comedians, when you know that much about something and there aren't a lot of people that do, it's just this bond, and then a lot of times time, how long I'll do this in interviews and stuff, I'll think it, I'll touch on it for 20 minutes, it's like an hour and a half, and it just goes But Gil was just such a lover of comedy.
And yeah, I was lucky, to be able to do that and just to have these conversations and just to hear a lot of his stories, which I mean, just a phenomenal storyteller.
John: I loved his podcast because it really dove into the monoculture that had gotten into your brain by osmosis. So those of us of a certain age that grew up on, five channels knew who people were because Bugs Bunny did a Humphrey Bogart impression, that kind of stuff, and Gilbert would talk about the Lon Chaney's of the world, and you knew who these people were, whereas my son is 21 now, if I showed him anything from the 20th century, I could be like, this is John Travolta, he's really famous, he would have no idea, it's just a different time.
Mark: It really is. I'm always fascinated when I get emails from people in college or just people that are in their 20s. That listen to the Carson podcast and found Johnny on YouTube. And yeah, that people just get into cavit or anything from the retro. Years. And yeah, the typically that no one under 40 knows who Carson is.
I would probably say people under 30, I don't even know if Leno, Leno said. I was like only a couple years after he left that he was in my hometown where I grew up a lot in Hershey, Pennsylvania, and he was at the theater and somebody younger person was like, Have you done anything else other than this stand-up? And no clue he hosted the Tonight Show or anything. Yeah, people forget pretty quickly, but no, they did great. Frank Santopadre, who was wonderful, did pretty much all the research of the guest and Gil would just show up and just, sometimes even fall asleep during the taping.
But yeah Frank, it was a good pair because Gilbert was charming and had some good questions. But if he was bored, man, you can tell sometimes like 30 minutes goes by. It's just Frank and you're like, where's Gil?
John: Especially in the early years. It was like The Frank show with Gilbert nd then, but it's the same thing we keep talking about, right? The first year you're finding your way. It did a great job.
Mark: (I talk) to Frank about this sometimes. It's just it's so heartbreaking. and obviously it's inevitable at how many people have passed away on both of our shows. I think with the Carson podcast, we've had 40 people that I interviewed.
A lot of people in their nineties, late eighties and stuff. And then you have people like they did this amazing photo like a year before they all passed but it's like it's a photo it's like Gilbert, Godfrey, Bob Saget and Louis Anderson and these are people I'm like oh I put off interviewing them they're gonna be around forever and luckily I got all of them to do the podcast and then within a year they're all gone it's just I feel very I never thought like a Bob Einstein who I had on twice who I got to know a bit and talk on the phone it's just like you don't think about them being gone and I'm just so glad that I was able to get them and you just never know when they did the same thing they just got so many people who just think are going to be around for a while longer like Peter Fonda and they were just able to get these stories that some of them I'm sure I've never been told or quite told like that.
John: Looking to the future how do you think late night factors in the streaming era? Is there a play? Does it have to be 11. 30? Could we stream Mulaney at 8 o'clock? Do we not need this anymore? Even the network shows, if Jimmy Kimmel does retire, which I don't believe he will, do you even bother?
Mark: In terms of the streaming, I think for one of those shows to survive on streaming, that they're gonna probably take a more Mulaney approach, which is maybe they do every show, like Mulaney does like, maybe four times a year, or whoever it is, maybe does six here at a time. But I can't, And I could be wrong that there would be anybody doing a show five nights a week on streaming where they felt they had to check in.
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Mark: So many of the matrix or people watching the next day on on YouTube and online they're just, There has to be a reason for people to make an appointment television that they're going to stay up and there. I don't know if there was a danger when Dave was at at 1230 where you just never knew what was going to happen.
Mark: And part of that just to stay up. And I felt like I always had the expectation that there's just going to be something a bit dangerous what he was going to say what was going to happen in that. Don't know if that exists now. I think for the networks, it's still a cash cow, not as much money as it was.
Mark: The viewers every year go down on broadcast TV, but there's still, you have Harrison Ford on and you're paying him scale. That started with, I believe Steve Allen, that there was somebody over there, a producer on Steve Allen's tonight show that's no, let Sullivan pay them all exuberant money.
Mark: We're just going to pay scale and it's stuck. So you can still get these. Amazing guests, you're paying them not a lot of money and yeah, there's this whole myth that Corden's show was losing money and that's why James Corden left, which could not be further from the truth. It was so not true.
Mark: They were still making money. It's just, they were not what they were. You could say that with broadcast television. I remember when I was an intern on a spin city, Michael J Fox, ABC, when they were still throwing around crazy network money and parties and just everything was this, and then they just, the network started, that was back when like people were leaving.
Mark: Saturday Night Live. I think it was near the end. I remember Sherry Oteri and Chris Kattan after I said, Oh, they got big network deals, her at CBS and him at ABC. And it was still like the peak of the network pain writers that couldn't even write creates, it comes like crazy money for development deals.
Mark: And that's, I remember when it started stopping and it's just, Oh man. It's just network. It happened with network. It's yeah, it's in terms of the primetime stuff with how it's dealt with now it's night and day and I have, yeah, it seems like with late night. it's just different.
Mark: I hope I, I'm going to, I'll share this with you. I haven't really talked about it this much. There were two late night shows where the network, made the head producers and the hosts, take significant pay cuts to stay on the air.
Mark: it was never talked about publicly that I'm aware of, but, these are people that I think would be very surprised. their shows were made to take a hit, just because they weren't what they were and, it's what it is. the shows kept going. there's possible one of the hosts, was paying out of his own pocket to his staff, the producers just to make up for the money.
Mark: I'm not sure, but, everything changes and stuff. I think those franchises will still be around. NBC, very smartly just put Fallon's 10th anniversary in primetime, and it did well. But, as I told somebody over there, they should be doing that every year. A couple of years ago, I was talking to somebody high up on the totem pole, and I'm like, you have to remind your viewers that Jimmy Fallon has done all this memorable stuff on the shows.
Mark: With guests and got in all these people that normally don't do talk shows and stuff and just remind your viewers. Fallon's whole template was trying to be Johnny Carson. He's still to this day doesn't come out before the show to do a warm up like most of the other shows because Johnny did not Kimmel, when he first started for most of his years, would come out before the show, because Dave did, but then Rickles was told him, I'm like, why are you coming out beforehand?
Mark: It ruins the energy. You want to come out like being shot out of a cannon. And Kimmel said he's tried it and Rickles was right. Immediately, completely, and Jimmy noticed it was better for him not to do the warm up. But Fallon, Carson didn't do the warm up. Fallon doesn't do the warm up.
Mark: Fallon's in Carson's old studio in 6B. There's a lot of similarities towards both of them, but one of them that he should be doing every year is an anniversary show. I, you Have to remind your audience of especially in prime time, why you exist and and the work that cause he did, it's a different show than the other tonight shows, but as a clip show, they have some amazing stuff, and I hope that They continue to do that with the clip shows.
John: Yeah. And again, back to Letterman, those first five years that he did anniversary shows, and I think you make a great point that Fallon for for a clip show Fallon's the one.
Mark: I mentioned to somebody high at NBC that when they do the clip shows, they, should be eight H cause, six B is, they expanded it, but it's still a tiny studio, but he did it at eight H like Leno when he was in New York.
Mark: It's just the energy. Of having more people, especially people close up. You can have people really close up. If you watch Saturday Night Live, they have those seats that are just right there. And when Leno, the first time he went to New York, I was there, I was in those seats, right?
Mark: Close the thrust stage. It was so successful and it worked so well. He went back to Burbank and that's when they built the thrust stage that was right there. And I felt that Fallon would just, it would have just been so much, More exciting for him in the audience at just a different energy.
Mark: If he did it in eight H for the anniversary shows, and maybe they will at some point, but, it makes a difference.
John: the reason I'm laughing now is last night I was at my daughter had a school performance and a bunch of the students got up and sang songs and I was doing this thing that I tend to do where I'm the last person to clap.
John: If you clap, I give it one more clap and my older daughter looks over me and she's like flexing your ego. And I told her I started doing this. It was my 15th birthday. And I got to see Late Night with David Letterman. You had to be 15 to get in. And I got in and my buddy and I wanted to hear ourselves on the playback.
John: So we just did one extra clap every time and I've never stopped doing it. And then as my career went along and I became a producer, I learned the art of clapping louder and dragging the crowd up with you, with your clap. And it just never stopped. So just the memory of the studio there.
Mark: mean, I have so much empathy because I worked in the medium and I know how hard it is for those hosts or for performers to be up on stage when they're not getting that energy from the audience.
Mark: I'm the clapper. I'm the laugher. if I'm invited from somebody to go to one of those shows, I will tell the people next to me, I'm going to be laughing really loud. it's one of those things where I've talked to the hosts and the audiences have no idea, but usually in a late night audience.
Mark: I don't know, 20 percent of the people are so excited to be there and so starstruck that they forget to laugh, especially during the monologue opening remarks, and then you just have people, some people that just are not, they laugh, but they're just not audible and it was just, when I worked on the Colbert report, we got mostly good audiences, but it was 107 seats.
Mark: Every night there would just be people that were so excited to be there and I'd watch them and they just weren't so they would have these giant grins and expressions, but they would not laugh. I would have to before the show always talk to them and to remind them to laugh and it helped, but still there's people and all the laughs count.
Mark: They really do. Letterman was the most Obsessed host with the audience and not the best way that I thought was probably positive for him. But yeah, to get the clapping which the host actually, the clapping is important, but they all want laughing more than clapping. Like I would bother Letterman when there would be too much clapping for sure on his show.
Mark: They just want the pure laughs, but clapping, definitely the energy that you're talking about is what. And when I go to one of those shows, I'm exhausted afterwards just because I feel that responsibility as an audience member and just knowing how tough that is for them, just that I'm going to be that, that, that person.
John: We've talked on this podcast a lot about Claptor watching a special and the comedian does four minutes and gets applause. I'm not sure that's the best thing. Now this medium's different. The audience is hearing the audio version. You and I are looking at each other on video as we record. And I'm smiling and sometimes pointing at you and giving you some feedback.
John: But I'm deliberately Not stepping on your stories. And that's back to the, everyone's going to tell me this was a really good episode. What they're going to mean is Mark was great, but I'm going to get credit for it because I'm shutting up and letting you tell these wonderful stories. It's just different.
John: I could sit here and laugh, at everything you're saying, but I'm just choosing not to.
Mark: phenomenal broadcaster. There's certain people that, and it took me, and I'm not even putting myself in your league, but it took me a while. To be able to not step on people once in a while, it'll still happen.
Mark: Like I'll, if I feel like I need to interject something, I try really not to let the person speak, but I think you're right. W what you just said, but yeah, it's definitely you should get the credit. You're setting me up for all these things, you know what you're talking about your professional and you make it easy versus some of the people That have talked to me and it's just like pulling teeth sometimes and
John: Those are the worst.
John: I had a comic on who was a fan of and I was just getting nothing back And I was I cut it short. I just I couldn't yeah, it's like
Mark: there's certain people that Yeah, I think there's only one or two maybe I couldn't air and I know gilbert and frank had the same thing that happened with at least one or two people and It's just I guess they're trying as hard as they can but it doesn't really you can't doesn't show that they are I would hope That they're trying their best and it's just what it is.
Mark: But yeah, you can tell pretty quickly if it's going well. And if it's those times when it's like pulling teeth. Yeah, not fun.
John: So Mark, I've kept you twice. What I asked for, you've been very generous. Oh yeah, this is great. Proper podcast plugs. Oh, you're nice. Sell your show.
Mark: Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff on Apple podcast on Spotify, wherever you get the podcast, every week we are going to be telling late night stories, the stories that people do not know for the most part, and just going a deep dive.
Mark: I love Dana Carvey and David Spade's podcast, Fly on the Wall at SNL. They talk about SNL, but I learned pretty much very little to nothing. They don't go deep. It's very fun, and I like it, and people should check it out. But this is the one where people will walk away. We're talking to Robert Smigel about stuff, or Spike Farrist, and we're, people are gonna walk
John: Spike was great!
John: See I just stepped on you. No, it's great! He was! Spike
Mark: was great! I was excited! The reason I wanted to talk to him is because I just knew that there were stories that I did not think. the audience probably knew about his time at Dave and SNL that we would have those types of stories.
Mark: And I knew from his podcast, he's a great storyteller. And yeah, he worked in the medium. He had his own show on Fox for three years, talk show with Spike Ferriston. So we're talking to people like that. We had Rachel Dratch from Saturday night live. We have, David Cross is coming up.
Mark: Rob Corddry from the daily show. Michael Ian Black, who was on The State and did Letterman's show. Worldwide Pants produced Ed, which he was on. So we have Letterman stories. He was the number two finalist when Craig Ferguson got the gig. So we talk about all that drama. Yeah, just. really, just talking to these people every week.
Mark: I learn things. I can use my knowledge from over the years, which I have nowhere else. Old podcasts, I couldn't really tell these stories that I know as well. There's nowhere else I know. that people are going to find these stories. It's great when these people go on other shows and stuff, and occasionally stuff will come up.
Mark: But the research that I put into it hopefully will show, and the guests have been very nice to comment on that they appreciate that. And we'll see where it goes. But I definitely think a big emphasis will be on Saturday night live stuff that has never been talked about and
John: good year for it.
John: Yeah,
Mark: I hope so. I really do. And then, I would love to have Cabot back. I would love to talk to, even I want to do a devote a show or two to certain shows like magic Johnson or thick of the night and talk to the people that were there. About what? Went wrong. So we'll hit everything we can talk to.
Mark: I'd love to talk to Bob Costas later with Bob Costas was, is that show is incredible, the people he talked to. And it was almost like an early podcast. It had that feel of yeah. The first, I would love to talk to Costas. I met him once or twice. But I'm just hoping to talk to these people and just yeah, the pull the curtain.
Mark: Aside like we did with Johnny Carson for almost 400 episodes. Yeah, was it that, yeah, we, I could have kept going. I just was really tired and it just didn't make sense for me, but we did almost 400 episodes of that show. It was 390 some certainly. Yeah, late nighter. com forward slash podcasts.
Mark: You can listen to the podcast as well and see it pretty good. Normally I think they've been doing transcripts as well, which is really nice on late nighter and you can go to late nighter just for, if you want to know ratings with the guests that are coming up and they bill carter talked exclusively to Jimmy Fallon.
Mark: I know they've had people. Some of the daily show people, exclusive interviews. So it definitely would late night, or they're doing stuff that you're not going to find anywhere else. And I'm glad that you liked the site. I think it just, it makes sense for me to be there with them. And I'm glad that they're having me and they've just been very supportive of me.
John: Fab. I hope you come back. You know when something comes up at late night, maybe I'll use that. An excuse. Oh, please. This is great.
Mark: I don't get to talk to a lot of people like this that know what they're talking about with late night in terms of the history, in terms of the power players. It doesn't happen a lot that I get to talk to somebody like that.
Mark: Yeah I, this was fun and yeah, I'd love to come back at some point. And yeah, I appreciate you asking me.
John3: man, wasn't he great? I hope you really enjoyed that. Inside Late Night
John3: podcast. Definitely check that one out. I hope to have Mark on again. I really enjoyed that. Could have done another hour each.
John3: Back tomorrow with a normal episode. Hope you enjoy that one. See ya!